Be One of Their Seven Podcasts
Guest relentlessly on other shows to reach listeners who already love podcasts.
- Difficulty
- Easy
- Time to result
- ~months to results
- Steps
- 4
- Confidence
- 85%
Dumas grows his audience by being a guest on other people's podcasts constantly — 20 in the day of this interview alone, many on shows smaller than his host's. His logic: podcast listeners listen to podcasts, and the average listener already follows about six shows. He doesn't try to displace those shows; he wants to become the seventh one they add. By delivering value to another host's warm audience, he earns a place in their rotation. He stresses that even after 3,000 of his own interviews, growth still comes from putting in the reps.
Origin
Eight years and 3,000 interviews into his own show, Dumas still spends much of every month guesting on other podcasts, treating it as both giving back to the community and his primary audience-growth engine.
Core principles
- 01Podcast listeners listen to many podcasts, so other shows' audiences are your best prospects.
- 02The average listener already follows around six shows — your goal is to become the seventh.
- 03Guesting delivers value directly to a warm, relevant audience rather than a cold one.
- 04Growing a show still takes reps — thousands of appearances, not one viral moment.
How to run it
- 1
Say yes to guest spots
Accept appearances on other podcasts, including smaller ones, as a way to reach listeners who already consume podcasts.
Pro tip Dumas doesn't even vet a show's size — he says yes as a way of giving back and reaching new ears.
- 2
Batch the appearances
Group many interviews into intense days so the volume is sustainable alongside your own production.
Pro tip Limiting most guest spots to 15 minutes lets you do many in a day.
- 3
Deliver value to their audience
Aim to genuinely help the host's listeners so you earn a place as one more show they add to their rotation.
Watch out A sales pitch instead of value won't convert a warm audience into your listeners.
- 4
Keep putting in reps
Treat growth as a long game of consistent appearances over years, not a single breakout moment.
In the wild
Dumas was doing 20 interviews on other people's shows the day of this recording, many with smaller followings, purely to reach their listeners and become one of the podcasts they follow.
→ Continuous audience growth by inserting himself into the rotations of overlapping podcast audiences.
Common mistakes
Only guesting on bigger shows
Refusing smaller shows shrinks your reach; any podcast audience is full of people who listen to multiple podcasts and could add you.
Pitching instead of delivering value
Using a guest spot to sell rather than help fails to earn a place in the listener's rotation.
Is it for you?
Best for
Podcasters and creators who can add value as guests and want targeted audience growth.
Not ideal for
Creators whose audience doesn't overlap with other shows, or who can't sustain the appearance volume.
From the transcript
“your average listener listens to six other podcasts I want to become one of their six like listen to my show too”
“it's no secret that podcast listeners listen to podcasts and so I just want to be one of seven podcasts that holl's listeners Listen to”
From the episode
John Lee Dumas: Productivity Hacks to Work Smarter, Not Harder
John Lee Dumas